Man, don't you love how you tell yourself you are not going to do something and then the first thing you do is do what you said you were not going to do? Drives me batty! It does. And, I have done it.
I took a hiatus from my blog because of politics. Yep. I get so frustrated reading blogs by "Christians" who idolize certain political leaders and then advocate policies that are not biblical, but claim they somehow have the lotto holdings on Christianity. And I put that in quotes because honestly, I don't think some of them are genuine follows of Christ but also because I don't know if they are or not.
I have a hard time reconciling how anyone can be against abortion and then be against the very programs that help women carry their children to term and care for them, like medicaid, food stamps, WIC, daycare assistance, subsidized housing and student loans.
I don't understand people who claim to be so patriotic and all about supporting our soldiers, but then they don't support veterans programs that help our men and women get the medical care they need. Some are disabled and need more than just medical care, like subsidized housing and other programs that help those who need help caring for themselves.
I don't understand how someone can claim to be a bible-believing Christian and then think it is totally appropriate for us to ignore that we are supposed to be caring for God's creation.
None of that makes sense to me. I can't even wrap my mind around it, it is so illogical to me. And, so I end up back in the very same conversations again and again. To me it is not about whether you are a Democrat or a Republican. Really. I vote for both pretty much equally. The issue for me is the hypocrisy of it all.
And I will just be blunt about it. This is how I feel ...
If you have a problem with some of our tax dollars going to care for the poor ... then you have a spiritual issue. Because honestly, I don't see how you can be a follower of Christ and think that it is perfectly okay for people to starve. For children to eat out of dumpsters. For the elderly to be homeless and alone with no one to care for them. For babies to be sick and hungry and no help to be found.
If you are more concerned with big business than you are God's creation, then you have your priorities messed up. If you think it is okay for businesses to pollute our water supply and rape our forests because it is all about the almighty dollar ... then you worship that money and not God.
If at anytime you are more concerned with yourself than you are others, you need to reevaluate your beliefs because nowhere in the Bible does it tell you that is okay. If you concern yourself more with patriotism and nationalism than you do what your Bible says, you have issues.
You know, I wish there was a real Christian political force in this country. Our country isn't far behind Europe and godlessness is becoming rampant. But a bunch of hypocrites screaming about welfare isn't going to change that. People hear what we say. They judge us by what comes out of our mouths and we aren't converting anyone by acting like a bunch of selfish hypocrites that talk about Jesus out the side of our mouth while we act anything but Christ-like. We tend to forget that there are a lot of unbelievers out there that know the Bible pretty well. So ... they know what it says about those things.
So, there it is. Maybe now I can talk about other things for awhile. God has been doing some amazing things in my life. Evangelism is becoming more and more important to me. I would like to spend more time on that. We will see ... I guess. :)
I took a hiatus from my blog because of politics. Yep. I get so frustrated reading blogs by "Christians" who idolize certain political leaders and then advocate policies that are not biblical, but claim they somehow have the lotto holdings on Christianity. And I put that in quotes because honestly, I don't think some of them are genuine follows of Christ but also because I don't know if they are or not.
I have a hard time reconciling how anyone can be against abortion and then be against the very programs that help women carry their children to term and care for them, like medicaid, food stamps, WIC, daycare assistance, subsidized housing and student loans.
I don't understand people who claim to be so patriotic and all about supporting our soldiers, but then they don't support veterans programs that help our men and women get the medical care they need. Some are disabled and need more than just medical care, like subsidized housing and other programs that help those who need help caring for themselves.
I don't understand how someone can claim to be a bible-believing Christian and then think it is totally appropriate for us to ignore that we are supposed to be caring for God's creation.
None of that makes sense to me. I can't even wrap my mind around it, it is so illogical to me. And, so I end up back in the very same conversations again and again. To me it is not about whether you are a Democrat or a Republican. Really. I vote for both pretty much equally. The issue for me is the hypocrisy of it all.
And I will just be blunt about it. This is how I feel ...
If you have a problem with some of our tax dollars going to care for the poor ... then you have a spiritual issue. Because honestly, I don't see how you can be a follower of Christ and think that it is perfectly okay for people to starve. For children to eat out of dumpsters. For the elderly to be homeless and alone with no one to care for them. For babies to be sick and hungry and no help to be found.
If you are more concerned with big business than you are God's creation, then you have your priorities messed up. If you think it is okay for businesses to pollute our water supply and rape our forests because it is all about the almighty dollar ... then you worship that money and not God.
If at anytime you are more concerned with yourself than you are others, you need to reevaluate your beliefs because nowhere in the Bible does it tell you that is okay. If you concern yourself more with patriotism and nationalism than you do what your Bible says, you have issues.
You know, I wish there was a real Christian political force in this country. Our country isn't far behind Europe and godlessness is becoming rampant. But a bunch of hypocrites screaming about welfare isn't going to change that. People hear what we say. They judge us by what comes out of our mouths and we aren't converting anyone by acting like a bunch of selfish hypocrites that talk about Jesus out the side of our mouth while we act anything but Christ-like. We tend to forget that there are a lot of unbelievers out there that know the Bible pretty well. So ... they know what it says about those things.
So, there it is. Maybe now I can talk about other things for awhile. God has been doing some amazing things in my life. Evangelism is becoming more and more important to me. I would like to spend more time on that. We will see ... I guess. :)
I almost agree with you on this one. As a former welfare mom myself, I think a minimum safety net is beneficial to society as a whole. Certainly the job training I got while on welfare enabled me to become a productive taxpayer after my baby was born. I've more than put in to the system what I took out.
But I disagree the conflation between wanting a social safety net and Christianity. Christians are obligated to help the poor (in spite of the fact that we will never eliminate poverty - as Jesus said, it will be with us always). So why do we do it? To glorify God. The fact that it also aids the poor and helps our sanctification is a bonus, but the real point of giving is to glorify God; a tangible work to illustrate his mercy and abundance to us.
Using tax dollars for that mission - what is explicitly, biblically, the church's mission - actually harms the church because Christians give less when they do not percieve the need or feel like what we gave to the IRS subsitutes for missional giving. Using tax dollars for charity also teaches people to rely on government, not God, builds gratitude to government, not God. We don't need bigger social programs, we need revival. But I think the more we rely on government, the less likely that is to happen.
Hey Laura!
I see a correlation since the first advocates of the welfare system were Christians, or at least they take some major credit for it. Now, we know why they advocated it and that is because we are to care for the poor and the charities of the day, plus the churches ... couldn't meet the need. I still believe that to be true and think it is probably more so now.
Do I think our welfare system is bloated? I sure do. Do I think it penalizes families and encourages single parenthood? I sure do. Do I think that people take advantage of the system? I sure do. But, a lot of people use that as an excuse to want the total abolishment of the system. I was recently even accused of "idolizing" the government because I did not agree with a brother who feels that way.
Now, I believe we are to do everything we do for the glory of God ... whether that is pay our taxes or be nice to the store clerk who acts like you are there just to make her life miserable. That store clerk doesn't thank God for the smile you give her just as the government doesn't thank God you paid your taxes, but you do it anyway. If we are to argue that the government helping in the care of the poor does not glorify God because the recipients do not thank God for that assistance ... then we can say the same thing about the assistance provided by the American Red Cross, Samaritan's Purse or any other charitable organization (whether Christian-based or not).
And we differ in that I don't think Christians give less because of social programs. I think they give less because they are just stingy. Not all, but many. If you talk to any church bookkeeper, you will find that there are a lot (A LOT) of church members that don't even tithe, let alone give offerings. If they won't be bothered to do those things, why would they be bothered to give to their church's food bank or feeding program? I know my church actually shut our feeding program down because of a lack of funds. And, honestly ... I think you could take every tax dollar back that was paid into welfare and give it back to every member of my church ... and I bet we still wouldn't have the funds to start that feeding program up again. They would spend it on what mattered most to them, whether that be a new video system, stereo, a new car ... or whatever.
I think that is most churches too. I am not just picking on mine because I love my church and I love our members. I think it is just the nature of the "beast" so to speak. Plus, so many in our churches aren't even Christians. They are there because it is the "thing" to do. It is a social thing. And, some are just culturally Christian. They just walk the walk and talk the talk ... but they aren't actually saved.
But, we totally agree on revival! :) We need it more than we can even comprehend, I think.
You know, the great thing about seeing you comment is that while I know we may not agree, we can have a civil conversation about it! I like that! Not many extend that much grace. Many extend none at all. :)
If we are to argue that the government helping in the care of the poor does not glorify God because the recipients do not thank God for that assistance
No, what I meant but poorly conveyed is that it makes government, not God, the savior and giver of all good things. Gratitude is after the fact, but my real problem with it is the government is overtaking the church's mission to the poor. Again, I'm not against having a welfare system for practical reasons - it put me in position to be a more productive citizen, self supporting and paying more taxes later in life - I just don't see a Christian justification for it. If we were doing our jobs, there'd be no need for welfare, so more shame on us.
I have a real problem with the American church. Get a load of these stats: http://www.generousgiving.org/stats# - shocking!!
But as you say, the vast majority of churchgoers don't even come up with the 10%. These trends are scary: http://www.generousgiving.org/trends#
When I see a church member driving a Lexus, it drives me wild. I understand he's got the right, the freedom, to spend as he pleases. But I think it says more about his spiritual condition than he'd like to convey, if he thought about it. I struggle with trying not to be judgmental - after all, when the rich young man declined to give up all he had and follow Jesus, Jesus didn't tackle him and grab his money bag anyway... it mad him sad, not angry. And I'm totally against "spreading the wealth" in an involuntary manner. But I wish that my pastor - if he could do this in an apolitical way because I don't want politics in the pulpit, ever, from either the left or the right - would preach more on poverty and missions here in the US.
Well, obviously I'm all over the map on this one and just rambling now. Sorry! Even though we don't agree, we have significant overlap. As to civility - that's easy enough, because I like and respect you. :-)
And, I like and respect you too. :)
I think we agree on a lot of things and when we disagree it is more a matter of perception. For me, I agree that God is the Giver of all good things. But, He also uses us to give and do and care. He works through us for His Glory. He gave us our government ... so in my mind, that means the government as an agency of God (which it should be and totally isn't because the world doesn't want God telling them what to do) should help in caring for the poor. They can do it much more efficiently and by doing so they create a lot of jobs which helps employ more people and leaves less people needing assistance.
Notice I said help. And, I think they could help a lot less if we Christians stepped it up.
Did you know that when I lived in Florida, I actually heard a pastor preach that the church was not social services? Really. He sure did. I thought, yeah ... we are supposed to be and because of attitudes like that ... we aren't fulfilling our duties as Christians and we are failing miserably as human beings.
Made me mad.
And I so agree with you about not wanting politics in the pulpit, whether it be from the Right or Left. I also agree that our pastors need to be addressing us more when it comes to poverty and home missions. I am always hearing about overseas missions and I think that is great. We need to be overseas. But, we have a mission field here and we have to stop waiting for people to step into the local church to hear the Gospel. There are a lot of lost and dying people out there and they are never going to step into a church until they have a reason to.
And that stuff on giving ... doesn't surprise me at all. We have a lot of really generous people in our churches and we have a lot of really stingy ones too. Believe me, I know what you mean on trying not to be judgmental. I fight that battle too. :)
Hi,
I like your blog. But on this post (What To Do) you are missing an important distinction, and confusing the issue. You say:
"If you have a problem with some of our tax dollars going to care for the poor ... then you have a spiritual issue. Because honestly, I don't see how you can be a follower of Christ and think that it is perfectly okay for people to starve. For children to eat out of dumpsters. For the elderly to be homeless and alone with no one to care for them. For babies to be sick and hungry and no help to be found."
Two points: First: I agree that we (individuals) are commanded to help others. However, it is NOT POSSIBLE to fulfill Gods command in this area through the government. If I take money from my neighbor against his will and give it to the poor, have I obeyed Gods command? No. I have committed NO charitable act at all, neither has my neighbor, but I have broken His commandment not to steal. It is the same when government takes taxes by force from one to give to another. Who has committed the charitable act? The politician? No. He gave NO money of his own. The taxpayer? No. He didn't want to give it. (And perhaps he didn't want to give it to the government because he disagrees with the terribly inefficient way the government handles the money, and would rather have given the same money to the local homeless shelter.) In fact charity is destroyed when it is accomplished by force. Also, God never commanded YOU to feed ALL the hungry, nor will you be accountable for ALL the hungry. He told you to help those that you could, and to do so with a willing heart. That is ALL you will answer for.
Point 2: You say that if we don't want to use taxes for the poor, then we think that it is perfectly ok that they will starve and be homeless and be sick and die. Several questions: In your view the "government" is MORE moral than the people? Without the government forcing them, people will ignore the poor? What leads you to these conclusions? Don't politicians come from the same ranks of fallen humans as the rest of us? And are you really discounting all the work that gets done through private charity organizations? And the untold $ millions given voluntarily to fund that work?
Listen. God is not poor. If He only wanted ALL the poor to be fed, He could do that Himself. Instead, He wants US to feed and clothe and care for them ourselves, willingly, not by force. It is only then that we are actually obeying Him.
Thanks for your many thoughtful posts.
Sincerely, Joseph
I prefer my email not be included in the post to prevent spam
If we (the church) had fed the poor in the first place, the government wouldn't have needed to do it for us.
We didn't then but claim we would now. I don't think that is true. I think that is a lie for most who claim it.
Thanks for your comment! :)